Aiming

[rem49]

Today I had a break through. Usually I just keep both eyes open and shoot. I am usually very close but it is all trial and error. When I got home from work I went out to shoot before the sun set. I tried seeing if I could actually aim. I closed one eye and "put" the top fork on the bottom center of the target. My accuracy improved immensely! Is this the way you all aim or do you do it another way? I don't care for the one eye shut part but the results are awesome. rem

[nudd]

I have always shot by instinct because im left eye dominant but i shoot right handed so aiming is a no no but the other day i tried shooting left handed i hung a pop can in front of my back stop and i found myself aiming and i found i was almost as accurate as shooting right handed so there is benifits to aiming next time i practice i`ll be shooting left and right handed :cool:
atb stu

[retro68]

I too have been experimenting with instinctive vs aiming. Last night I was aiming with my Bunny Buster and shooting better than ever. I keep both eyes open since I am right eye dominant and shoot right handed.

But last weekend I tried aiming while shooting plastic bottles thrown into the air and that was a complete waste of ammo. When shooting moving targets, I do pretty good if I just focus on the target and let muscle memory handle where the slingshot and pouch are. I started out shooting at a gallon milk jug, then went to 2 liter bottle, then a 12 oz water bottle. If I just focus on the target, I was able to hit it 50-60% of the time. If I try to aim my percentage is nearly zero.

I have found that I have more success trying to aim some slingshots than others. The Bunny Buster aims great. I seem to shoot better with the QP, however, when just focusing on the target.

[rem49]

When I have both of my eyes open I am shooting instinctively. All I look at is the target. I do not like closing my left eye, it seems uncomfortable, but I cannot knock the results. Will this screw up my instinctive shooting or am I fine tuning it? What do you think? rem

[ryonker]

I have shot bows instinctively for many years.

I think it is important to distinguish "snap" shooting from instinctive shooting. Many archers who "snap" shoot develop lots of bad habits because there is no real solid anchor and then release.

In instinctive shooting, you are aiming even as you draw. Even a quick anchor and release is not snap shooting if the anchor is consistant.

Wingshooters videos are nice examples of good shooting form.

So all good instinctive shooting involves aiming. It is possible to use reference points like what you are talking about Rem, and still have it be instinctive shooting.

It's sort of like what Byron Ferguson talks about in his book "Become The Arrow" on instinctive shooting. You focus on the target but you see the arrow which helps you adjust up and down. I do this, and don't really think about it. Some call this gap shooting, but even "pure" instinctive shooters use reference points, even if it is automatic.

Perhaps both of your eyes are close in strength? I have a strong dominant left eye so it easily overides the right when I aim.

[retro68]

ryonker,

That is a good explanation. I see things in peripheral vision when focusing on the target, so there is some sub-conscious aiming when shooting instinctively. When I refer to aiming versus instinctive, it is more where my mind is than my eyes... if I am actually paying attention to the bands, top fork, etc... if feel like I am aiming. If I simply try to stare a hole through the 10 ring, draw, anchor, and let fly, that is what I call "instinctive".

I am suffering from TERRIBLE target panic with traditional bows at the moment. So much so, I don't even enjoy shooting bows right now. I have to find some way to break this cycle... If I tell myself I am going to draw, anchor, then let down... I can come to my trusty, solid anchor point... Then the very next draw, if I know I am going to shot, I snap shoot no matter how hard I try not to. It is a reflex action. Hard to break.

So rather than shooting bows, I have been shooting slingshots every day after work. I don't have the target panic with slingshots for some reason. Just bows. The good news is, I am getting better with slingshots and actually enjoying them more than archery at the moment.

[ryonker]

That's great. I am really enjoying slingshots now too.

Here I what I have done for target panic.

One option is to try a clicker. It is a small device that clicks at the point when you release. Then you really don't have to think about releasing so much. I have set mine (when I use it) so that it clicks just after full draw& anchor. It clicks as I flex my back muscles.

Also, try shooting with your eyes closed (at a big target;) ), or in the dark with a big target. Don't even worry about hitting something. Just anchor, release, anchor, release.

[retro68]

Rick,

Thanks for the tips and advice!

I was on the NCSU archery team and am very familiar with clickers. They are a great tool, but I can also remember hating my clicker toward the end of a two day tournament when it felt like the draw length increased by 4" :D. Lost some cock feathers in the final ends of a few tournaments. Shaking like an earthquake on each draw. Looking back, I was over-bowed, but shooting aluminum arrows at 90m caused me to do stupid things.

My target panic started when I shot a self bow a couple weeks ago that is not supposed to be held at full draw for long. I suppose I could pull out my college recurve with clicker and retrain my brain :rolleyes:

I have been shooting with my eyes closed a lot lately, and I can shoot with proper form that way, but as soon as I open my eyes, the dreaded curse of the target panic returns. It is amazing how little control one has of his own body/reflexes in a situation like this. Quite frustrating! But I shall eventually overcome this I'm sure.

In the meantime, I am greatly enjoying slinging steel balls downrange.

Kurt

[faca]

Today I had a break through. Usually I just keep both eyes open and shoot. I am usually very close but it is all trial and error. When I got home from work I went out to shoot before the sun set. I tried seeing if I could actually aim. I closed one eye and "put" the top fork on the bottom center of the target. My accuracy improved immensely! Is this the way you all aim or do you do it another way? I don't care for the one eye shut part but the results are awesome. rem

hi I use to aim the same way but, before release, I check that only I can see upper band becouse the under band is behind the upper one=totally horizontal fork position and use line formed by upper band as sights line.
Sorry if I have not been very clear.:o

[Jaybird]

I( have shot instinctive all my life recurves ,longbows,selfbows,and slingshots I have shot with sights on compound bows and rifles Your form is differant when shooting traditional bows instinctive verses shooting traditional bows or compounds with sights or some kind of sighting system.Your draw length will be shorter shooting instinctive because You are getting into the bow,You are not standing straight up like with sights in target archery.That is why instinctive shooting is better for hunting,unless You only tree stand hunt and know the distance to Your target,instinctive shooting You can shoot in any position.To succesfully instinctive shoot You have to learn to block everything out except Your target.Most people don"t instinct shoot today because it takes longer to get proficient than it does with sights or a sighting system.A snap shot is a uncontroled shot just because You shoot fast does not mean it is a snap shot.Instinctive shooting with bows You cant Your bow to get it out of Your line of sight.In my experience and what I have seen with others to get good You have to chose one way or the other and practice.It takes a lot more practice in the beginning shooting instinctive so a lot of people give it up.

[Jaybird]

To make it simplier and maybe easier to understand instinct shooting is hand eye co-ordination shooting the same as a football player throws a pass to a running end,or a basketball player makes a basket. We all have the ability to do this but it has to be developed. The ball players see nothing except there intended target the same as a instinctive bow or slingshot shooter.

[Bill Herriman]

I know from reports that I have recieved, that Jay is a much better instinctive shooter than I am although I do shoot that way some. To be a very good Instinctive shooter like Jay, you need to shoot That way a long time or a awful lot almost every day, then your slingshot just becomes a extension of your body. Jay I never got around to saying very well done at the Tournament, so I will say it now. Great Job, Bill Herriman

[Jaybird]

Thanks Bill.:)

[leather foot]

i shoot my slingshot like i shoot my bow....i can NOT shoot a bow with sights....when i shoot my bow i draw anchor, close one eye look strait down the arrow and feel where its going to go .....then let it fly!!!!! i am very accurate with my bow but after i shoot a while i start scattering. i think its because after a while muscles get fatigued, and the slightest shake could throw you off a foot. i think this may happen with slingshots to ....but to be honest i like shooting sling shots more:D

[Jaybird]

Leather Foot when You are sighting down Your arrow You are not instinctive shooting You are aiming down Your arrow. Instinctive shooting,hand eye co-ordination shooting is looking at nothing but Your target.
Here is some food for thought
Does any one:) know what"hit it on the button means" and how it got started. I"M going to let everyone think about it for a couple days and then I"ll tell You.
Hint:::It has something to do with the zen of hand eye co-ordination shooting which I will call instinctive shooting from now on.

[ssssSnake]

With my eyes open OR shut.

ssssssssssssssssssssssssss

[Jaybird]

leather Foot I forgot to mention I know several people shoot very well looking down there arrow.Thay hold there bow stright up and down and draw with three fingers under the nock with the arrow right under there eye.If a bowyer makes a bow for shooting three fingers under thay will tiller it differant than for the split finger draw.Because You put more pressure on the bottom limb with a three finger under draw.

[wingshooter]

My 2 cents, I shoot both eyes open and referance my slingshot. I have never had the ability to shoot purely instinctive I always see my sling shot or bow. After shooting a particular model of sligshot I develope a sight picture for the distance I happen to be shooting. I do a lot of stump shooting (ya Mike they are a little tough to cook) so each shot is a little different. I do believe that form plays a big role in shooting. If you watch a guy like Jay that is really good shot and keep your eye on him you probably won't be able to tell when he shoots because he is still holding dead on.
Same solid anchor and the ability to hold the hand that holds the slingshot on target until way after the ball has left the pouch preferably until you hit your target. When I shoot this way I can be competitive, then there are days I couldn't hit a bull in the butt with a bucket of wheat.
practice, practice,practice and have fun.
Roger
www.footbridge.org

[Flatband]

I started out(like everyone) an instinctive shooter. Shot that way for years when I hunted. Then I learned through forums and from Bill Herriman and Blue Skeen about aiming a slingshot. This went against all the brochures I got as a kid when I purchased slingshots. They all said you don't aim a slingshot. Well you can. When I first tried it was very awkward. Now I find instinctive shooting hard. Brochures and books help a lot but when it comes to shooting or doing anything,how comfortable you feel and much practice with your method will get you the results you seek. All the books say,hold your slingshot at an angle,don't use a pistol grip,etc. Jaybird is an awesome instinctive shooter who holds the frame dead vertical. When I was very young I used a pistol grip and was very good with it. Bill Herrimans wife used a pistol type grip and I think won a tournament. So all is not what you read!(check out Old Rufus Hussey's video on You Tube-is that "by the book" form?:D Flatband

[rem49]

I started out(like everyone) an instinctive shooter. Shot that way for years when I hunted. Then I learned through forums and from Bill Herriman and Blue Skeen about aiming a slingshot. This went against all the brochures I got as a kid when I purchased slingshots. They all said you don't aim a slingshot. Well you can. When I first tried it was very awkward. Now I find instinctive shooting hard. Brochures and books help a lot but when it comes to shooting or doing anything,how comfortable you feel and much practice with your method will get you the results you seek. All the books say,hold your slingshot at an angle,don't use a pistol grip,etc. Jaybird is an awesome instinctive shooter who holds the frame dead vertical. When I was very young I used a pistol grip and was very good with it. Bill Herrimans wife used a pistol type grip and I think won a tournament. So all is not what you read!(check out Old Rufus Hussey's video on You Tube-is that "by the book" form?:D Flatband
Now the question I have is HOW? I got the idea with one shooter then picked up another one and it was like starting all over again. I then started questioning the first way I was shooting. Is there a "rule of thumb" for aiming? When I shoot instinctively I am always close and hit it maybe 20%. My son (skimmer49) aims and he kills the target. He uses the QP but I use my over the top shooters. Help!!!!!

[Flatband]

Hi Dean,
the way I do it is to hold the frame dead horizontally,put the target over the uppermost prong,then run my eye down the band edge and line up on the target. At ten meters you'll be close if your release is clean. That is the way I use for "Over the top" shooters. For a through the throat job,I do everything the same except put a mark on the center of the band and use it to line up on target. The mark in center is because the bands width is showing when a through the throat slingshot is used. Ypu may have to tweak a little here and there but that's pretty much it. Flatband:)

[rem49]

Hi Dean,
the way I do it is to hold the frame dead horizontally,put the target over the uppermost prong,then run my eye down the band edge and line up on the target. At ten meters you'll be close if your release is clean. That is the way I use for "Over the top" shooters. For a through the throat job,I do everything the same except put a mark on the center of the band and use it to line up on target. The mark in center is because the bands width is showing when a through the throat slingshot is used. Ypu may have to tweak a little here and there but that's pretty much it. Flatband:)

Thanks flatband. One more question... where do you anchor? I anchor at my jaw "joint" right next to my ear lobe. Dean

[Jaybird]

Rem 49
When You are shooting all around the target it is probably a concentration problem.Monday I am going to answer the food for thought question and I believe it will help with Your problem:)

[rem49]

what is the food for thought question?

[Flatband]

I used that spot too when I hunted years ago. Now I shortened it to my cheek hollow. A lot of the really good shooters I've talked too all say the same thing- Keeping the same anchor point every time is one of the most important things. The last tournament I was at I watched Jack Koehler, who authored the best book on slingshots out there titled " Slingshot Shooting". I watch everyone because you can always learn something useful. Anyway, Jack has his routine down to a science,check grip,check bands,load ammo,check that ammo is centered,close pouch,make sure both ends of pouch are even,thumb straight,stance balanced,pull back once or twice(pre- warm bands) draw,aim,fire. It does work because Jack is one of the best! Flatband:)

[Jaybird]

rem 49 Go to page 2 aiming and you will see the question

[rem49]

I used that spot too when I hunted years ago. Now I shortened it to my cheek hollow. A lot of the really good shooters I've talked too all say the same thing- Keeping the same anchor point every time is one of the most important things. The last tournament I was at I watched Jack Koehler, who authored the best book on slingshots out there titled " Slingshot Shooting". I watch everyone because you can always learn something useful. Anyway, Jack has his routine down to a science,check grip,check bands,load ammo,check that ammo is centered,close pouch,make sure both ends of pouch are even,thumb straight,stance balanced,pull back once or twice(pre- warm bands) draw,aim,fire. It does work because Jack is one of the best! Flatband:)

Flatband, I have not had a chance to shoot in 2 days but I did draw on one of my SS's. Obviously taking the draw back to the hollow of the cheek I get a good look down the bands.:) Now should I shorten the bands to get a more powerful shot?:rolleyes: How long are your bands? rem

[Jaybird]

Answer to food for thought question of how the expression"I hit it right on the button" originated.
When You instinct shootYou concentrate intently on the bulls eye.Some people even get a head ache.There is no bulls eye on a deer or other game animal so it is harder to concentrate on a certain spot.The oldtimers would carry a button around in there pocket and look at it often till thay had the image of the button firmly implanted in there mind.
When a deer or other game animal thay wanted to shoot came into view with there mind thay would project the image of the button on the animal where thay wanted to hit it.Now thay had a spot to concentrate on.When thay hit that spot thay could say "I hit it right on the button" that is how that saying originated.

[rem49]

That is some interesting trivia. I need to try that!

[Flatband]

Wow Jay,didn't know about that "Button" thing-cool! Hey Rem,I keep my bands at all different lengths because of all different type slingshots and rubbers I shoot. My main 10 meter slingshot I usually load with a tapered .050" Latex -1" x 5/8" x 7" that's from pouch to frame. You haven't shot in 2 days? I think I might have taken 10 shots in 2 months? I have to get out there and start practicing but damn it's cold!:eek: Flatband

[rem49]

Wow Jay,didn't know about that "Button" thing-cool! Hey Rem,I keep my bands at all different lengths because of all different type slingshots and rubbers I shoot. My main 10 meter slingshot I usually load with a tapered .050" Latex -1" x 5/8" x 7" that's from pouch to frame. You haven't shot in 2 days? I think I might have taken 10 shots in 2 months? I have to get out there and start practicing but damn it's cold!:eek: Flatband

I tried shooting tonight and missed everything! :( I am so confused:confused:. I tried anchoring in the cheek hollow, felt I needed shorter bands. I could see down the bands good but I did not get the aiming at all. Do you think that jack Koehler book will help at all. rem

[Flatband]

Don't give up Dean, ask Bill Herriman. The same thing happened to me. I was ready to go back to instinctive but He said it will take some time-stay with it. I'm glad I did. Be Patient Bud! Flatband:)

[Jaybird]

Here is something else that may help Your slingshot shooting.
Visualization
A sport Psychologist did a study on visualization.He had one group of students shoot baskets every day for 30 days,Another group shot baskets the first day and were told to come back in 30 days.The 3rd group shot baskets the first day and go home and visualize shooting baskets every day and come back in 30 days.The group that shot every day improved 18 percent .The ones that shot the first day and visualized improved 17 percent.The ones that shot the first day and the last day didn"t improve at all.Visualization can help Your slingshot and bow shooting it could even improve Your horse shoe pitching.

[rem49]

Here is something else that may help Your slingshot shooting.
Visualization
A sport Psychologist did a study on visualization.He had one group of students shoot baskets every day for 30 days,Another group shot baskets the first day and were told to come back in 30 days.The 3rd group shot baskets the first day and go home and visualize shooting baskets every day and come back in 30 days.The group that shot every day improved 18 percent .The ones that shot the first day and visualized improved 17 percent.The ones that shot the first day and the last day didn"t improve at all.Visualization can help Your slingshot and bow shooting it could even improve Your horse shoe pitching.

I understand that is a practice in golf too. Not by me, but by real golfers:p.

[THWACK!]

I understand that is a practice in golf too. Not by me, but by real golfers:p.
REM49,

I shot a basket. The BB went through the net, bounced off the backboard, and ricocheted right into my belly-button. Amazingly, I had visualized that the night before.

See? It works, but I don't suggest shooting baskets. They shoot back.


Ok guys, only kidding.

[rem49]

REM49,

I shot a basket. The BB went through the net, bounced off the backboard, and ricocheted right into my belly-button. Amazingly, I had visualized that the night before.

See? It works, but I don't suggest shooting baskets. They shoot back.


Ok guys, only kidding.

Iat least visualized it when you described it!:p

[Flatband]

I must find out what kind of medication Mike is on! We need more of it nowadays. It's called a real good sense of humor. If you don't have it in these difficult times,you've had it! Anyone know when the market will come back. I did plan on retiring at the appointed time but I guess now 93 is the new appointed time! GET ME THE MEDICINE!!!!!:D Flatband:)

[rem49]

What is retirement? When I got out of the Marines I was told I was retiring but I have never worked harder in my whole life! I can't handle any more "time off". Unless of course if I use it to work on my aiming!!! rem

[ryonker]

Rem, how long are you holding on the target before releasing?

I have shot bows instinctive for many years, and the most important muscle for accurate shots (other than your brain, which I know isn't a muscle:p) is your back.

If you hold too long, you relax your back muscles and the release hand can creep forward a bit.

Also, holding it too long (at least with a bow) can result in a bad release. My best shooting happens when I draw, anchor and then release almost instantly.

If you can watch good shooters, that helps. Also, have someone video tape you and then replay it. Show it others on the forum who are the really experienced shooters.

Watch the short videos of wingshooter. He has a very good form and it looks like he is very accurate.

It isn't uncommon for people who are still messing around with the style that works for their shooting to be a bit off.

Be patient.

Good luck!

[THWACK!]

I must find out what kind of medication Mike is on! We need more of it nowadays. It's called a real good sense of humor. If you don't have it in these difficult times,you've had it! Anyone know when the market will come back. I did plan on retiring at the appointed time but I guess now 93 is the new appointed time! GET ME THE MEDICINE!!!!!:D Flatband:)
Guys,

The "secret" of my "medicated" mind is actually several: I believe in the saying "don't sweat the small stuff", and most things are "small stuff", when compared to the larger picture. Celebrate your victories with friends who cheer with you rather than those who are envious - for they are not truly friends, but detractors. Don't dwell in the past, especially on unfortunate events, look ahead for life rather than behind for "should-have-dones". Ignore other's frailities, for we all have them, and look for the best in each other. Believe that every living human being has something to contribute, and knows things by experience that you should know, so be open to everybody to enrich your life, and look down upon no one. Probably the best guide I've ever heard is this: there is no "dress rehearsal" for life - so get it right the first time, and enjoy every bit of it.

Well, that's my prescription, at least part of it. There'd be more, but my tighty-whities are attacking me with a pronounced wedgie at this time.

Sorry it wasn't as funny as the Beta fish stuck to the bottom of my bedroom slipper, but hey, that's life.

Best2u,
Philosopher Mike

[Skimmer49]

Haha! i hear ya Mike:D

[rem49]

Rem, how long are you holding on the target before releasing?

I have shot bows instinctive for many years, and the most important muscle for accurate shots (other than your brain, which I know isn't a muscle:p) is your back.

If you hold too long, you relax your back muscles and the release hand can creep forward a bit.

Also, holding it too long (at least with a bow) can result in a bad release. My best shooting happens when I draw, anchor and then release almost instantly.

If you can watch good shooters, that helps. Also, have someone video tape you and then replay it. Show it others on the forum who are the really experienced shooters.

Watch the short videos of wingshooter. He has a very good form and it looks like he is very accurate.

It isn't uncommon for people who are still messing around with the style that works for their shooting to be a bit off.

Be patient.

Good luck!
I am not holding long at all. I am now just bringing it up and drawing to my anchor point at the same time, a look at the aiming point/fork, a peek at the bands to see if my draw is straight and then release. It may sound like a lot but it isn't. Right now it is around 4 secs because eI am trying to take my time and get it into muscle memory. I am sure it will be faster as time goes on. Does it sound too slow or too fast? The only other shooter I have ever seen is skimmer49, we are new to this. rem

[ryonker]

Have you watched Wingshooters videos, demonstrating his rotating head?

I think 4 full seconds seems like a long time...but maybe it's because I have shot bows for so long.

I would say, one one-thousand, two one-thousand and that should be plenty of time to draw, anchor and release.

Again, I would video tape yourself so you and others can watch. The tape will show you what is really happening.

[rem49]

I will see if I can figure the video thing out on my camera. rem

[THWACK!]

Have you watched Wingshooters videos, demonstrating his rotating head?

I think 4 full seconds seems like a long time...but maybe it's because I have shot bows for so long.

I would say, one one-thousand, two one-thousand and that should be plenty of time to draw, anchor and release.

Again, I would video tape yourself so you and others can watch. The tape will show you what is really happening.
Rick,

I don't know if you stay up late to watch TV, but I'm pretty sure that David Letterman has a rotating head.

[rem49]

Bill all this info is great help. Thank you all. I am now in the practice practice practice stage:)

[Jaybird]

One of the main reasons for shooting fast when instinct shooting is so You don"t start second guessing Yourself if You do that You will not shoot accurate.Hunting I shoot fast target shooting I take a little more time.I noticed as the years go by it takes my computer [brain] a little longer to get things lined up.

[rem49]

One of the main reasons for shooting fast when instinct shooting is so You don"t start second guessing Yourself if You do that You will not shoot accurate.Hunting I shoot fast target shooting I take a little more time.I noticed as the years go by it takes my computer [brain] a little longer to get things lined up.

It all makes sense. So you think I will eventually get back to instinct shooting? Do you recommend I learn to shoot aiming or instinct first?

[THWACK!]

It all makes sense. So you think I will eventually get back to instinct shooting? Do you recommend I learn to shoot aiming or instinct first?
Jaybird,

That's quite a coincidence - my girlfriend recently remarked that I seem to be having the same problem : )

I'll blame it on the "neurons".

[Jaybird]

rem 49
I can"t say what would be best for You? there are things You must weigh.
It takes longer to get good at instinct shooting,weeks possibly months.Instinct shooting in my opinion is better for hunting or shooting at targets at unknow distances.Sight shooting or useing some referance point on You slingshot or bow doesn"t take as long to learn but You have to be good at judgeing distances.For most people sight shooting is best for known distance targets.You can practice at known distances and mark Your slingshot for that distance.There are expert sight shooters on the forum I"m sure would be happy to give You tips. What ever way You choose stick with it and practice ,practice,practice.

[rem49]

I have been emailing Bill and he has been extremely helpful with sight shooting. I understand the practice part. I would like to sight shoot from 10yards. I need to hear the "tink" of the can!:p I do not hunt. No reason, just never got in to it. If I did I would only bow/SS hunt. I know I can hit things with a rifle. My thoughts are if the animal gets close enough to you that you can get it with a bow/SS, you have given it a fair chance:D. Thanks for all the help jaybird. Rem

[rem49]

Just wanted to update you guys on my aiming attempts. I shot about 30 rounds today. Had just a little time after work. Anyway, I tried aiming and was not getting anywhere. I then tried walking seven full steps (6 yards-ish), quickly turning (drawing at the same time), then immediately letting go when I saw the target. I hit 4 out of 5! I was shocked! Maybe I am thinking too much! Ha!. I am still going to work on aiming tomorrow. That has to be something I can learn. Still it was fun.

[THWACK!]

Just wanted to update you guys on my aiming attempts. I shot about 30 rounds today. Had just a little time after work. Anyway, I tried aiming and was not getting anywhere. I then tried walking seven full steps (6 yards-ish), quickly turning (drawing at the same time), then immediately letting go when I saw the target. I hit 4 out of 5! I was shocked! Maybe I am thinking too much! Ha!. I am still going to work on aiming tomorrow. That has to be something I can learn. Still it was fun.
REM49,

A couple of things:

The longer you hold, the more tension your muscles are under, the more tremor builds up.
While the tremor builds up, you're probably also holding your breath too long, depleting yourself of oxygen, and your target appears to "wander", so you take even more time trying to get it back in sight before you release. Too much over-all tension.

Sound familiar ?

Instinctive shooting a/k/a "snap shooting", forces you to fire at target acquisition, and with practice, so-called "muscle-memory" kicks in to calculate the proper holding for a particular range. Actually, it's more than "muscle-memory", since the brain is involved, though for only a millisecond. Muscle-memory alone can play a tune on an instrument over and over again, ad nauseum, without thought at all.

So now you're doing just fine, and you're happy, and you now know, from your buddies here, what the problem was that you were previously experiencing.

[rem49]

I shot enough rifles and pistols to understand the breathing part and I can say that was not it. All you said is true but I know that wasn't what I was experiencing. I think the key I was missing was the release. I could not get the idea of the letting go of butterfly wings like Bill said. I am thankful for all the posts of help though because what everyone posted applies to someone and we are all here to learn more! Thanks guys, rem